Thursday, June 12, 2008

Finally, My Brethren: Lessons from the 2008 Southern Baptist Convention

While millions of words will be used in reports concerning the Southern Baptist Convention, readers of Musings from Maytown are awaiting the definitive word from the writings of an overweight Baptist preacher with fixed opinions on all matters Baptist. Consider with me lessons learned from the 2008 Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting in Indianapolis.
1) Indianapolis is a good city for the annual meeting of the SBC. The hotels were nice, the food was good, the convention locale was convenient, and the business people seemed welcoming to Southern Baptists. While the city is North of the Mason-Dixon line, South and Central Indiana are similar in culture to the Southland. Also, Southern Baptists in Indiana are a vibrant convention, and hopefully this meeting was encouraging to Indiana Baptists. Especially positive was the election of Indianapolis Pastor John Newland to the office of Second Vice President.
2) Nomination Speeches make a huge difference in an election. Most bloggers stated, in pre-convention prognostications, that the leading candidates were Johnny Hunt and Frank Cox. Ted Traylor of Pensacola made a powerful nomination speech for Johnny Hunt. Out of six nominations, Traylor was the final speaker. His thunderous speech obviously carried the day. Evangelist Junior Hill's nomination speech for Frank Cox was factual, but contained no elements of persuasion.
Two years ago, Forrest Pollock gave a compelling speech for Frank Page. Dr. Pollock is now with the Lord, but will always be remembered for his powerful speech that resulted in the election of a gentleman considered a dark horse for President.
3) Dr. Frank Page served Southern Baptists well as Convention President. Mind you, I did not vote for Frank Page, I voted for Jerry Sutton in 2006. But Frank Page was a gracious, yet effective presider over convention meetings. Dr. Page worked to keep the focus on spiritual revival and missions. I like the man, having briefly met him. Dr. Page's demeanor is humble and kind. May Frank Page remain an influence on Southern Baptist life.
4) I should never again predict the outcome of a Convention election. Two years ago, I predicted the election of Jerry Sutton. Dr. Sutton ran third out of three candidates. This year, I predicted that Frank Cox would win on the first ballot with 52%. Dr. Cox ran second with 22%, as Johnny Hunt won without a runoff with 53%. Dr. Joe Bob Mizzell said John, I won't ever listen to your predictions again. As usual, Dr. Mizzell is right.
5) Moderate influence in the Southern Baptist Convention is nil. All six candidates for President expressed support for the Conservative Resurgence. No motions were made that reflected opposition to the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. While some Baptists would express differing opinions, none were outside the purview of conservative theology.
6) Never underestimate Vox Populi! During consideration of resolutions on Wednesday morning, some gentlemen offered amendments to the resolution on Regenerate Church Membership. Dr. Tom Ascol of Florida offered an amendment that brought opposition from the Resolutions Committee. One might think that the official Committee would carry the day. However, the Ascol amendment, which did strengthen the statement, carried the day. The voice of the messengers was powerful.
7) Baptists need to learn the lesson of
the weightier matters of the law. Baptists have fought hard over issues such as use of a private prayer language or alien baptism, and believe me, I am not averse to discussion and policy on these issues. But this year, an amendment was offered dealing with the situation of California public schools. California state policy requires that public school students be instructed concerning various forms of sexuality. A student in a California public schoolwill be instructed with an idealogy that homosexuality is good but the traditional family unit is questionable. Messenger Ron Wilson of Thousand Oaks, CA stated that the terms mother and father were not permissable in a California public school classroom. This policy prompted Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family to urge that parents remove their children from California public schools. Yet, messengers overwhelmingly voted down a call to urge California Baptists to remove their children from that instruction.
I am amazed at the lack of concern about evolution in the science departments of Baptist colleges. This lack of concern is often found from those who are ready to go to war about a woman teaching Hebrew in a Seminary.
Again, as Jesus taught in Matthew 23, these you ought to have done, but not to leave the other undone. I am not denigrating the discussion on issues of a private prayer language, authority for baptism, and the role of women. But the concept of biological evolution denies the very heart of the Gospel in denying a one-man, one-woman creation. This writer never ceases to be amazed that some who would permit a professor in a Baptist institution to advocate a low view of Scripture are often the same individuals who would go to the wall over an issue of divorced Deacons. Again, which issue is the weightier issue?
In conclusion, thank you for your regular readership of Musings from Maytown. This past week, I was constantly stopped by individuals, from across the country, who read Musings from Maytown. This website was complimented by State Convention Presidents, Newspaper Editors, Seminary Professors, and a host of church Pastors. Please know that the editorial board of Musings from Maytown gladly appreciates your support and encouragement.

31 comments:

Dillon Thornton said...

Excellent summary! I specifically enjoyed and agreed with your final point.

foxofbama said...

Dr. Killian:
Couple things. At the heart of good bit of Baptists of all stripes is the autonomy of the local church.
That is where I think you do best; from everything I can gather you have a heartbeat with your folks at Maytown. Lady from U Chicago I was reading yesterday I think would applaud you for that.
As SBC goes, I can't see where churches like FBC Guntersville, Ft. Payne, Montgomery, and our friend Fenton at Dawson can agree with the spirit of your conclusion moderate influence in SBC is nil.
While the influence may be nil, there is a lack of intergrity in churches who continue to fund CP to the max. More designated is in order, especially as it concerns Land's ERLC and the SBC ExCom.
And while your views on Creationism may fly in Maytown, I doubt they fly with Rick Lance, GAry Fenton or the majority of their home church congregations.
It's a 19th century notion and it don't scour.
God Bless you anyway. Check my blog on good places to eat in Dekalb County. And with or without me next time your up this way on a Friday or Saturday you got to check the Potato soup in Dogtown; best in the fall and winter.
Meeting Monday night at Collinsville City Hall; town hall forum on future planning for the town. Will be interesting to see if can calibrate the ghost of Boston Killian in what if any consensus in the room.

Anonymous said...

Bamafox, you are dead wrong. there is no lack of "Itergrity" in churches that fund the CP. What right do you (who give nothing) have to criticize those who give all. There is, on the other hand a great deal of Integrity in free and faithful SBC churches that regularly fund foreign missions, childrens orphanges, hospitals, and seminaries through the Cooperative Program.

foxofbama said...

Doctor: Very good analysis of where the Blogger reform movement of Burleson/McKissic stands now in SBC in SBC Forum at Baptistlife.com
I think Rick Lance and Alsbom staff as well as folks in the pew in the churches I name above and like minded will want to take a cold hard look at themselves in light of that analysis and the Ed Setzer/Tony Cartledge blog I link in that thread at that site.
Thanks

Sfox

foxofbama said...

Tony Cartledge disagrees with the anonymous bamafox detractor above.
www.tonycartledge.com and search there for his April 25 blog on Ed Setzer.
Simple, very simple to bring that blog up.
Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free; and will also guide your wallet toward better channelling of your faith based giving.
If you have a problem with Tony Cartledge, feel free to make a comment on his blog; and have the integrity to identify your church home.

Anonymous said...

was Mr cartledge at the convention? would he pay his money to get there to ol'Indy and watch the races with Johnny Hunt comin' out ahead of the pack. Hunt certainly wasn't like Big Brown who folded for the XXX Crown. I believe that BARAKABAMA will fold like Big Brown when people around here learn about him. If cartledge won't there, then let him keep silent on the SBC. Foxbama asks for integrity to identify church home. it appears he ain't got none, as he, on his blog today, asfoxseesit, blasphemes the wife of the preacher at FBC collinsville. He can come over to my church, but it is East of Dekalb county. And it is too dangerous to ride a bicycle on the highways of west GA and roundabout here.

Anonymous said...

No one was blasphemed at my blog. I had a short statement with a reference to a Newsweek Religion blog.
The demagogues are elsewhere in this latest distraction from the topic at hand; from your routine anonymous poster who we know is not so anonymous at all.
Sfox

Looking forward to other input on this convention wrapup.
Looks like Alan Cross of Montgomery is getting lot of discussion in his SBC wrapup blog

Anonymous said...

Where do you go to church FOX OF BAMA?

Ben Stratton said...

"Nomination Speeches make a huge difference in an election."

Boy ain't that the truth! Not only did Ted Traylor get to speak last, but he was the most passionate nominating speaker. Those two together counted for several hundred votes at least. Junior Hill spoke first and to be honest had no passion or energy.

I noticed that John Marshall who spoke for Avery Willis also had a good speech which probably counted for Willis' strong showing.

Dewayne said...

Ted Traylor's quote, word for word, concerning FBC Woodstock's giving to the CP:

"Last year First Baptist Church, Woodstock, GA...they invested 3.3 million dollars [to] Southern Baptist Convention mission related causes through the Cooperative Program at the direct request of the International Mission Board and in partnership with our own North American Mission Board and their state convention there in Georgia."

Dr. Killian (or anyone else who wishes to comment):

Is this an honest and accurate statement from Traylor? I say it is politically deceptive at best.

PastorSteve said...

I enjoyed the convention--mostly--and I enjoyed the write up of the biz as I missed some of it.

Bro. John, I 'll leave the thoughtful comments to you--but here's what I took away from the convention. While this may seem trivial, I think the two things I'll share hurt us as Christians and as SBCer's especially.

1. Our Attitude (at least some). We've all heard the people say that Baptist think they are the only one's going to heaven. While we may not verbalize that, we give off the air many times. case in Point:

Sitting in a Mexican restaurant at the airport waiting for the flight to Indy, the wife and I we're next to a couple who were obviously baptist pastor and wife. The waitres asked, "do you want a margarita?" The lady says --in an indignat tone, as if to convey that the waitress should have known--" we don't drink --WE'RE BAPTIST." wow. A thinking, sane, evangelically minded person might have said, "no thanks, we'll have tea."

Later, if "Ms. my stuff don't stink ' had wanted to share the Gospel , it won't happen--the waitress would'nt listen; she already knows the pointy nosed so and so SBC lady is on a different more enlgihtened spiritual plain than she is. She would'nt listen--I know I would'nt.

Funny--we'll swallow gossip, slander, character assasination, lying, etc..but bless God we donit drink!! (by the way, why not just the lady to go to hell? It is as effective as we don;'t drink.)

My opinion: Many times we are perceived as "issue driven" rather than Gospel driven. Just a thought.

2. Bad tippers. Having been a waiter, I am keenl;y aware of the historically bad tippers among us. I used to get a tract and a buck and a "God Bless ya!" pretty regularly. (I always felt the love of Jesus too.)

I asked a waitress in the mall at the convention how tips were--she didnt offer, I asked. She said "I am Christian, my dad is a minister, and I went to Christian school. Look at this " She produces a check with 55.00 worth of food and drinks (from a convention attendee) and the tip --a whopping 3.00!! Oh yeah , and a tract. She completes the story by saying "This doesnt help me, and it sure does'nt help your image." WOW.

Perhaps you're unaware--serveers generally have to tip their hostesses, and bussers. So if they get a sorry tip , after they give "tip out", its over. And Im here to say that it 's a cryong shame that people can eat out but rip off decent and /or good servers.

I am aware that not allof us (SBCer's) are bad tippers. But my experience is tipping among SBCers (and other religuious groups too) most times is poor.

Point? It is a horrible witness to cheat a person out of their income. Most of these servers get a couple bucks an hour and tips. If we don't do our part to pay for a bonafide service, in my opinion, it is a sin.

Oh yeah--the convention was good too.

Pastor Steve

PastorSteve said...

I enjoyed the convention--mostly--and I enjoyed the write up of the biz as I missed some of it.

Bro. John, I 'll leave the thoughtful comments to you--but here's what I took away from the convention. While this may seem trivial, I think the two things I'll share hurt us as Christians and as SBCer's especially.

1. Our Attitude (at least some). We've all heard the people say that Baptist think they are the only one's going to heaven. While we may not verbalize that, we give off the air many times. case in Point:

Sitting in a Mexican restaurant at the airport waiting for the flight to Indy, the wife and I we're next to a couple who were obviously baptist pastor and wife. The waitres asked, "do you want a margarita?" The lady says --in an indignat tone, as if to convey that the waitress should have known--" we don't drink --WE'RE BAPTIST." wow. A thinking, sane, evangelically minded person might have said, "no thanks, we'll have tea."

Later, if "Ms. my stuff don't stink ' had wanted to share the Gospel , it won't happen--the waitress would'nt listen; she already knows the pointy nosed so and so SBC lady is on a different more enlgihtened spiritual plain than she is. She would'nt listen--I know I would'nt.

Funny--we'll swallow gossip, slander, character assasination, lying, etc..but bless God we donit drink!! (by the way, why not just the lady to go to hell? It is as effective as we don;'t drink.)

My opinion: Many times we are perceived as "issue driven" rather than Gospel driven. Just a thought.

2. Bad tippers. Having been a waiter, I am keenl;y aware of the historically bad tippers among us. I used to get a tract and a buck and a "God Bless ya!" pretty regularly. (I always felt the love of Jesus too.)

I asked a waitress in the mall at the convention how tips were--she didnt offer, I asked. She said "I am Christian, my dad is a minister, and I went to Christian school. Look at this " She produces a check with 55.00 worth of food and drinks (from a convention attendee) and the tip --a whopping 3.00!! Oh yeah , and a tract. She completes the story by saying "This doesnt help me, and it sure does'nt help your image." WOW.

Perhaps you're unaware--serveers generally have to tip their hostesses, and bussers. So if they get a sorry tip , after they give "tip out", its over. And Im here to say that it 's a cryong shame that people can eat out but rip off decent and /or good servers.

I am aware that not allof us (SBCer's) are bad tippers. But my experience is tipping among SBCers (and other religuious groups too) most times is poor.

Point? It is a horrible witness to cheat a person out of their income. Most of these servers get a couple bucks an hour and tips. If we don't do our part to pay for a bonafide service, in my opinion, it is a sin.

Oh yeah--the convention was good too.

Pastor Steve

Anonymous said...

Sheila Smith
by fox on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:10 pm

The Lyberrian's youngest sister who came to see My Momma when she was in the Hospital dying of cancer in the Winter of 88 and came to Uncle Bill's funeral last Spring.
Her father was in the band with My Momma about 39 or so, and he is top dog on the Baptist cornerstone; also was a city councilman but I don't think he ever overlapped with Dan Meadows, and Deacon Councilman Ryan was just sworn in last year. Sources says Meadows makes small time assault weapons for Councilman Ryan, but far as I know Ryan is still a deacon in good standing at the CBC; and for all I know served the Lord's Supper, the Last Rites, couple weeks ago when they did it. Last time I took with them was the Sunday before Sheila's sister kangaroo courted me out of the Lyberry for Life; least I THANK it was. bout Jan 22 if the haywire was the 20 and kangaroo was the 24th.
And Jane Ford A; I was in Gaffney at the time of the Prom. Sheila is about 13 years younger than me. We did go to Buddy's Momma's third wedding up at the Mentone Chapel couple years ago with the Sugar Booger but Sheila and I never dated. She subscribes to Rolling Stone, sings in the choir, has a special friend Annabelle, and went to see Brokeback Mtn. She goes haywire on occasion, last time I remember was at the lyberry board meeting couple weeks ago when she said she spit on my thermal--I got it on now; and then Jan 20 in the lyberry where she was loitering and I made a political comment to her sister referencing a conversation her sister and I had had just two days earlier; and they turn that it to permanent dismissal. Oh, and there was that time in the Post Office in Collinsville when the Prince and the Sbooger were in Maine. She got a little looney then. I said her Najaf was a political animal, no animus intended and used analysis of the former mayor as footnote.
Sheila Hon; I always heard one of the tests for sanity is you put a hominid in a room with the water running and a mop and if they start mopping before they turn the water off, then maybe you got a patient. Methinks maybe that is what you did copying out of the Dictionary on this one.
But I give it to you; You got me, YOu got me. I looked last night and I could not find incalcitrant in my funkin wagnalls much as I wanted to and hard as I looked.
in Re the mop analogy But sweetie, you tell Annabelle, we got more serious problems in Collinsville beside a rare malaprop by the Magnificent Stevie
We got a jihad junta running the local Babdiss that moonlights impostoring as lyberrians in the Lyberry banning the 2nd most well read person in the vicinity; #1 I always heard was Mark Morgan, the Dukey.
Oh a digression.
Here is the Top Ten Smart list in Collinsville case you forgot. Morgan Mark named it so in a conversation with me his later years at Duke bout 97 or so; one entry per family
1) Samuel R. Beene, Jr. also known as the Very Impressive Pooh, My collaborator. It was he and his Momma who networked with me to get Oxford American Mag in the local lyberry and your sister nixxed it; nipped it in the Bud, canned it and stopped the subscription to the Times-Journal just because she could. It is Pooh and I who now are linking up with three, yes three, writers in the current issue of OxAm, but we are humble and that is all we will say at this Juncture, I THANK.
2) THAT Matthew kid, not Morgan who finished about 91
3) Peggy Weaver, The Sboog's Momma, cause she made perfect on Math on the ACT about 64
4)Julie Anna Arthur
5)Matthew Morgan. If not the brightest in the family the best, the most virtuous even though one coworker of a city official doubts if he is a Christian. I have no doubts. Combo of virtue, intelligence and vocation, application lands him #5
6)Thomas Barksdale Patriarch, My friend Mr. Niddy--see Road to Perdition--catches the early bus everyday and that is why he has more money than I do and I respect him for it. Friend of Uncle Bill and Mary Jane. A Good Man, classmate of Bobby Bowden and Wayne Flynt at Howard which became Samford. Couldn't been too much younger than Jack Harwell and Randall Lolley. I must ask him.
7) Stephen M. Fox, consensus
Casey Mattox; he may be brighter than I am but his company proves something misfired from UVA to Boston College on the way to career.
9) Curtis Williams. I can see it in his eyes, he has much promise.
10)Edgar Padilla; Quite likely the first Hispanic US Congressman from the Bama 4th if he wants it
Where was I, the jihad Hunta.
Enough time on this for now.
Two questions Miss Sheila. Did you put the flyer on my window at church few weeks ago that said I was Not WELCOMED there anymore and how much more did it take for me to Get it.
Nessa of Nessa's fine catering said she didn't do it. Did you miss Sheila?
Looks like if you would make a mock comment like gonna spit on my thermal, a flyer is not much of a reach.
And one more thing hun, Help is out there just down the street and over to Spring Street. Was announced at last City Council meeting Lyberry board chair Bonnie Payne will be the official Collville rep to the county on mental health.
Talk to her. Maybe we can get things in proper perspective and see STrike Four in a different light, not to mention STrike three the Yale strike, and Two, the one that had Mary Berry laughing and Najaf signing notices.
I own strike ONe and the Malaprop. Recalcitrance. Thanks or thinks for pointing it out.
Saw where you got it up at the Post Office bright and early yesterday morning. You check now everyday and I will too and we will see how long it stays up.
Oh, and be looking for the Wacko Memo in a regional newspaper soon.
Have a nice day and thanks for making the 18th anniversary of the Day we buried my Momma a memorable one.
Should you get banned from the lyberry or church or Sunday school for that? Never
Oh know, I forgot; your daddy's name is on the cornerstone of the Collinsville Babdiss and My Momma's is Not. Forgive me again for being uppity, Missah Massah. You done always been good to us white aliens latecomer folks who wudn't borned here and I do show always preshate it now that you and yo Godly sisters and the good Christian Women at Nessa's fine catering done shined day light on me and let's me come to duh fust babdiss wheh I show can sing all I wants to but I can't say nuffin, cause U got Dat Daddy on duh kawnastone and u got dat david deacon councilman an he show No how to infoce dose awdnunces.
Pick up next time now on the Collinsville Quilt Walk dot com discussion of fall of 2002 and some reservations about fundraising for the REnovated Lyberry that in retrospect have proven to be prophetic; that is if Rosemay Clooney, make that Rose Mary Woods don't revenant and come down and erase it all.
INFORMED GADFLY

Fox's Blogfox

Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:43 pm
Location: South Dekalb County Bama
Private messageWebsite

I have a request for you-meaning everyone who posts her-Read this post here-It was posted by your own foxofbama sometime in 2006-pay close attention to the last paragraph-where he makes fun of a particular race by using offensive slang-
Do you really want someone like him as a member of this blog?Especially after he made fun of the pastors wife of collinsville baptist church today(on his blog)-a post which for some unknown reason he deleted sometime this evening-Don't worry foxofbama-we have copies of it-lots of copies-

foxofbama said...

Dr. Killian and friends:
Sheila makes a good point; there is no place for this on your blog.
The point about the Yes Massah talk was not about black folks at all, but about what I considered a plantation like mentality that was at work in the forces that ousted me from the community.
My abject apologies if it is taken otherwise. I have a pretty good record on race relations; but then again all of us make mistakes; white folks, Black folks, Hispanic folks; even folks in Myannmarr and Iraq and Herzegovia.
Fleming Rutledge has a good sermon has a good sermon about Bosnia and the USA and Iraq. The axis of evil is here and there and everywhere; it runs through each and everyone of us, and my experience has been that is especially true of the streets of Collinsville, Alabama in some cases; and somedays my own soul.
I think fair minded folks know that; but then again a fair mind from some of the folks in town is a little too much to ask.
I think the pastor's wife and I are still on speaking terms. She yelled at me as I was passing through town just ten days or so ago, a friendly nod to get my attention.
I spoke to a son of one of the city councilmen, just this morning as we are both grieved by the passing of Tim Russert.
Spoke to another one best I remember Feb 5 on the Day of the National Primary. I voted for Obama.
I think he voted for Hillary but I do not know that for a fact.
I came across a thought from a Pastor who teaches at the U Chicago I wanted to pass along publicly to the preacher's wife about church health and reconciliation.
Dr. Killian, you and I and I think the local pastor's wife know that we are not Catholics; we are Baptists, and as such we don't worship the Virgin Mary or the Preacher's Wife; at our best we go directly to Jesus.
In the several conversations I have had with Gloria Morgan over the years, I think she agrees with me on that.
She confessed to me she encouraged Sheila's sister and another woman to go to the deacons about some concerns about me leaving choir practice early or some such back in 2003 or so.
It's a long story. I have apologized before and do so here again for the manner on a few occasions I presented myself, but I thought there was a lot of gamesmanship and disingenuity going around.
I was delighted to have you there in the Sept 2003. Lot of folks in the church commended me for putting together that forum on tax reform, and not long after that I had a civil conversation with one of Sheila's friends downtown about having Fisher Humphreys come to church and have a discussion about things going on in Baptist life.
That person had once closed choir practice introducing a prayer saying denominations don't really matter.
I think you, Dr. Killian, and I think otherwise, though we disagree on the particulars.
It is sad Fisher never came and things took a different course.
Maybe if I live through the rest of the summer in any kind of decent health, you and Fisher can come up and meet with the Pastor and his wife and the librarian and the person who represented the pastor's wife and others when they went to the deacons and we can have a civil conversation about some of these matters.
In the meantime, I think you have serious thread drift here; and it would be good for Sheila and the Collinsville Baptist Church if you delete both this message and the one she dug up from two years ago as they are major distractions from the work of the Holy Spirit.
Thanks and my apologies again for this mess finding its way to your blog.

Stephen Fox of the Jordan family who go back to the 1840's in the vicinity of Collinsville; all of them better people than me.

PS; as for Annabelle, I apologize, Sheila, if you think I made fun of your dog. I never had anything against her, and I am happy you had such a dear pet for whom you had a lot of affection and her for you.
What bothered me was when you and your sister a just a few days before you had the kangaroo court to oust me from the library, let the dog run loose in the library while I was trying to do my hour time limit on the internet the state and county of Alabama had provided it services for.
So my apologies to Annabelle. I just thought since at the time there seemed to be a policy for everything in the library that could be used arbitrarily by the librarian against folks with whom she politically differed or had differences with in the church; maybe a dog runnin loose in the library policy might be in order.
But again, my apologies.
The Winter and Spring of 06 was an interesting time for us all, I agree. But it's been two years now and by 7 votes I miss having the opportunity, the Welcome of on occasion singing a few congregational hymns in the church where my Mother was baptized.
If you want to go to your grave using every ounce of your god given time, energy and "ministry" to spread your copies around and politic to keep me from that; then God Help You.

Anonymous said...

'In the meantime, I think you have serious thread drift here; and it would be good for Sheila and the Collinsville Baptist Church if you delete both this message and the one she dug up from two years ago as they are major distractions from the work of the Holy Spirit.
Thanks and my apologies again for this mess finding its way to your blog.'

It's way to late for your CYA apologies-You have finally gone to far with it-
As they used to say-the pressure relief valve has blown off of the top of the pressure cooker and it can't be reattached!

Anonymous said...

For fox o'bama and Sheila; the CBC deacons will meet early next month and we will take up the issue of the desire of Stephen, son of Louise, to rejoin the church. Fox oBama, Will you becoming on Profession of Faith or as a candidate for Baptism? Remember that a profession of Faith requires evidence of Faith. If bamafox's apology is sincere, then maybe he will be voted out by a closer margin this time. The New Testament records one case of Deathbed repentance, so that no one need despair. BUT, it has Only one so that none may presume. A promise made is a debt unpaid. Burma Shave.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
For fox o'bama and Sheila; the CBC deacons will meet early next month and we will take up the issue of the desire of Stephen, son of Louise, to rejoin the church. Fox oBama, Will you becoming on Profession of Faith or as a candidate for Baptism? Remember that a profession of Faith requires evidence of Faith. If bamafox's apology is sincere, then maybe he will be voted out by a closer margin this time. The New Testament records one case of Deathbed repentance, so that no one need despair. BUT, it has Only one so that none may presume. A promise made is a debt unpaid. Burma Shave.

June 14, 2008 6:34 PM

foxofbama-you aren't doing a very good job of disguising yourself-with the above post-next time do a better job-

Anonymous said...

Bro John and Pastor Steve,

you make some good comments about the weightier matters. I am troubled by the division within so many of our churches over who the preacher spends more time with, whether a woman (who doesn't preach) is given a minister label, we don't sing enough classical hymns, etc. etc., when people are dying and going to hell and the SBC is recently reported to have lost members. We need to be grownups and get over it. Go to church and worship, don't take evrything personal, and don't up and transfer to another church and spread your unhappiness at the first little thing. The point about being Baptist - so we don't drink is exactly right, because Jesus didn't push people away. For that matter, he turned water into wine, not Concord's grape juice. Point people to Jesus and let instruction and the Holy Spirit do the cleaning up part after they are saved.
DW

Anonymous said...

I WISH THAT COLLINSVILLE FOX would not desecrate the Lord's Supper at our church. He calls it the "Last Rite." Last rite is a sacrement of extreme unction that the Roman Catholics do for those who are about to die. I have not heard of a baptist church dis-fellowshipping someone for Ignorance; but this could be the first case. Those who know, tell me that bamafox was kicked out for disturbing the peace and mission of the church by pushing his liberal theology on people. Is that correct? Sheila's friend.

Anonymous said...

to the Bamafox man in Collinsville, you are most welcome in our church at Godfrey Ave. Baptist in Fort Payne. It doesn't matter whatever sin you have committed, BamaFox, Our God will forgive you just like He did with the other thief on the cross. We are an independent, Bible-Believing church. If you need a ride call: 9979303. a friend in Jesus.

Dewayne said...

Why is everyone choosing to ignore the issue I brought up in the 10th comment on this page? Do these guys get a free pass on integrity questions?

Anonymous said...

Was Jesus anonymous?
Does he want his followers to be or is everyone just fakin on this board.
Time to delete the brethren, would seem to me and have a little more integrity and Identity here.

Anonymous said...

Was Jesus anonymous?
Does he want his followers to be or is everyone just fakin on this board.
Time to delete the brethren, would seem to me and have a little more integrity and Identity here.

Anonymous said...

Robert Parham said in his wrapup:

Johnny Hunt's election confirms that Frank Page's election in 2006 did not signal the emergence of a 'kinder, gentler;' SBC," said Robert Parham of the Baptist Center for Ethics. "The founding fathers of SBC fundamentalism have reasserted their political power. Their continued direction is away from the center. That makes hollow the months of chatter in the media about the emerging evangelical center. If there is no trending away from extremism in the SBC, there is no trending away from the Christian Right among conservative evangelicals.

Anonymous said...

Robert Parham needs to start a "Kinder, gentler, Ethics Rarely". apparently he is still angry about losing his job here with SBC. As anonymous says, "There is not integrity is the body."  Robert Parham is conspiciously anti-SBC; and always will be. It is entirely possible that he, Parham, is mr. anonymous, and is blowing his own horn here; or is bamafox lip synching for him? I think so, what say you??

THE AGED AND WISE OLD FOX said...

Some of you bloggers here on Killian's great blog have been dissecting my brother's boy'S SELF ESTEEM ; Steven Fox here.; Some of the invasive surgery of taking down his religious boasts and caricatures he may deserve; but John Killian has a generous and loving spirit for all people, including Stephen. Let us do likewise, even those of you in the CBC church that he has castigated. Pray that he may find a new church home that will accept him. God has one there now in Dekalb county. Nothing is impossible with God. Uncle Prentice of Carolina

foxofbama said...

The test for Prentice's integrity in this matter is for him to take the several suspect anonymous comments on this board including the Last Rite, Was Mr. Cartledge at the Convention, the burma shave and Sheila's friend psts, Godfrey Avenue and Robert Parham "ethics rarely" posts, maybe others to the professiional counselour at his church and have that person help us clear up some of this.
Prentice's history convince me he is the author of many of these if not all.
That is the problem with anonymous posts and while I appreciate this venue and opportunity to engage the conservative resurgence; I do hope Dr. Killian will reconsider and use the ax as the anonymous will turn this forum into a cesspool quick as a cat can wink it's eye.
There are also several sarcastic remarks about Barack Obama that may not reflect the tone of citizenship as it approaches the public square in his community.
As Prentice is known by the Chief Chaplain of the US Army, this could be a grave matter if the suspected anonymous comments here and elsewhere are indeed his.
Dr. Killian; thank you for induling the phone conversation this afternoon. I particularly appreciate your on the record remark if to make a point in a civil conversation one were to use the cornerstone of the local Baptist church as a matter of relative political power and influence you would not be offended; and for sure would not use that as a matter of formally using that to kangaroo court a citizen from a public establishment, nor have it metastasize into removal from a Baptist church.
I appreciate that; and I appreciate your availability to speak at my memorial service if I leave this world before you.
Prentice is not welcome. That is a tragedy in our family, but he will not be welcome as far as I am concerned in my presence the rest of my life because his sickness is beyond my repair.
But for the anonymous dimwitted who see this as further evidence of their self righteouness in Collinsville, well a majority in the community disagree as the TARCOG deliberations may bear out.
Enough
Stephen

I hope you will bring the matter of the after effect of the SBC of INdy this year in another blog soon. Bob TErry's column this week in the Bama Baptist raises several discussion of the relative influence of Richard Land in the SBC now, vis a vis missions.
Terry is strong on that point.

Anonymous said...

Some of the invasive surgery of taking down his religious boasts and caricatures he may deserve;

Wicked and malicious thought given Prentice riles if like suggestion is made of confronting him among his own congregation.

Sfox

FOX OF CAROLINA said...

Stephen, I heartily endorse your decision to ask Dr. Killian to do your graveside service. It says to the world that basically you are returning to your spiritual beginnings of your early baptist roots, and you look not to Robert Parham or Bruce Prescott to utter some relatively euphemistic phrases at your "Eulogy." As Marney said, "We start and we end with The Gospel." Even though I prepared and delivered the message at your father's funeral; I will, if you so desire, be absent from yours. I am not the author of several mentioned pseudonym writings here ,as you accuse me. You once accused me of being Debbie Donofrio, one of many detractors here and on your little blog there in Collinsville. I categorically deny, as the great Clarence Thomas did, these and all other false charges. Let us return to the days of encouraging one another, instead of tearing down our brothers. UNCLE PRENT.

Anonymous said...

Prentice leaves two messages on my machine this morning calling for moratorium; and then goes for the last word.
Let's have the staff at Snyder look at these various suspect anonymous and the many about Barack Obama.
Until that time with lie detector test, jumper cables or under oath; I have my legitimate and experiential suspicions.
As Killian knows from our conversation yesterday, other possibilities for the Memorial Service include David Currie, Bruce Prescott; and if I knew them would love to have NT Wright, Fleming Rutledge and or BBTaylor.
You make your own funeral arrangements and let me do mine.
Otherwise, God Bless the Moratorium, Billy Graham, Marshall Frady, Jesse Jackson, MLKing and Charles Marsh and all the Saints in Glory.
Fannie Lou Hamer, I forgot Fannie Lou.

As everyone knows your prepared remarks at My Dad's funeral were not the most eloquent, most memorable and connecting utterances that day, August 5, 1999.
Much of it had the tone of contrivance, glancing from the subject of honor, my Dad, to bring attention to yourself. How sad, the stoop.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations to Snyder Memorial, one of the most Liberal Baptist churches in North Carolina if one uses the BFM 2000 as the plumbline.
CBF in Memphis commissioned a Snyder Member for Missions.
All indications are Snyder affirms Women in Ministry and Fair Treatment of Obama in the Presidential Campaign; no 527's no Roger Stone as revealed in recent New Yorker; fully advised of the ChristineWicker.com remarks at ABPress Banquet at Memphis CBF.